Episode 20

When do expectations start? Talking to my own three kids

Welcome!

In this episode I talk to my three children about what their current (early) concept is about taking care of aging parents. Turns out, it largely maps back to what they have seen on the Simpsons. Yup. Anyway, I explore the topics with them with modest success. Thanks for listening!

Caveats:

  • This is a judgement free zone
  • There are no "shoulds" allowed, we live in curiosity
  • Take what works well for you, leave the rest!
  • This podcast is for informational purposes only; it is not intended as formal legal, financial or medical advice

My course "unSandwiched" is now live find out more here.

If you are finding value in this podcast, please share and leave a review so others can find it too!

Rebecca

Disclaimer: The information presented on this podcast is solely for information purposes. We do not provide medical, legal, financial, or other professional advice through this podcast and we are not responsible for any errors or omissions. It is your responsibility to seek advice from a licensed professional. Any actions you take are done at your own risk.

Transcript
Rebecca:

Hello everyone.

Rebecca:

Welcome back to another episode of Real Conversations About Aging Parents.

Rebecca:

This is your host, Rebecca Tapia, and I've got an extra

Rebecca:

special episode for you today.

Rebecca:

I have my daughter, Arasana, with me.

Rebecca:

You want to say hi, Ari?

Rebecca:

Hello.

Rebecca:

So I mentioned her back in the podcast about reasonable risk, and I think

Rebecca:

that's an important concept, and I wanted to take a moment, first, Ari, to

Rebecca:

ask you about that and Your perception of reasonable risk and then later to

Rebecca:

pepper you with a lot of questions I haven't asked you before to see what your

Rebecca:

perceptions are of me as an aging parent.

Rebecca:

Okay, so We talked about how you learned about at camp the

Rebecca:

reasonable risk concept Can you tell everyone a little bit your life?

Ari:

I think that life is all about choices and how you

Ari:

deal with what you are given.

Ari:

And when it comes to choices, some choices probably have more likable

Ari:

outcomes than others I suppose.

Ari:

Um, the reason why Camp Champions teaches you about reasonable risks

Ari:

is because once you take a reasonable risk, you evolve as a human being.

Ari:

Um, my perception on reasonable risks is, well, I'll have to give you an example.

Ari:

So...

Ari:

Let's say that you, um, you're kind of nervous around, like,

Ari:

new people and making friends is a reasonable risk for you.

Ari:

Um, once you complete that reasonable risk, it helps

Ari:

you feel a lot more complete.

Ari:

And it's kind of like a snowball effect, right?

Ari:

Once you do one, it makes it easier to do another.

Ari:

And it makes it easier to do another.

Ari:

It kind of just goes with everything that you can do, whether

Ari:

it's being kind or being rude.

Ari:

Reasonable Risks is about kind of taking an opportunity and jumping on a chance.

Ari:

Of course, the risk has to be reasonable.

Ari:

Um, that was more about what a risk is.

Ari:

Of course, it has to be reasonable.

Ari:

But, I feel like life itself is a chance, and then there are

Ari:

a bunch of mini chances in it.

Ari:

That can lead to something that you really are proud of.

Rebecca:

So, I don't know, I don't think you've listened to that

Rebecca:

podcast, because I don't know that you're a loyal podcast listener yet.

Rebecca:

Not at all.

Rebecca:

Um, so, what I said was that everybody takes a look at a particular action

Rebecca:

and can go through in their head.

Rebecca:

Whether or not it's a reasonable risk for them.

Rebecca:

And so the way that we talked about it on the podcast was, Somebody may

Rebecca:

feel like, Oh, that person, , is, uh, Too disabled or too old to be doing,

Rebecca:

You know, whatever this activity is.

Rebecca:

And that they can look at the activity, And assuming that they have their mental

Rebecca:

capacity about them, That, that there is obviously, The ethos is to respect

Rebecca:

their autonomy to make a decision about what's a reasonable risk for them at

Rebecca:

a certain age And so when you're young like you you're 12 years old you think

Rebecca:

about things differently than I do.

Rebecca:

I'm 41 And then then your grandparents do or even your great grandparents

Rebecca:

everybody's a different way of sort of calculating what that is.

Rebecca:

So I appreciate you following up on that with us, because I mentioned it in

Rebecca:

a prior episode, but the real reason I brought you here was to pepper you with

Rebecca:

questions that I haven't prepared you to answer, so maybe it's totally unfair.

Ari:

What do you think?

Ari:

I think it's actually pretty fair considering I don't know the questions.

Ari:

Okay.

Ari:

That just makes it more

Justus:

fair.

Justus:

So,

Rebecca:

do you think your mom is, like, old or young?

Rebecca:

Hmm.

Ari:

Well, it kind of just depends on what case it would be.

Ari:

Suppose, like, if you were to go to, um, Maybe like a college.

Ari:

I feel pretty old, but you would feel pretty young if you went

Ari:

to a senior citizen's home.

Ari:

Oh,

Rebecca:

no, no.

Rebecca:

Do you think I'm old or young?

Rebecca:

Hmm,

Ari:

I guess you're kind of in the middle.

Ari:

Yeah, because sometimes it depends on when, where, too.

Ari:

Sometimes I look at my mom and like if you take me to school or something and

Ari:

I kind of look around at everybody and I look around at you and I'm like You look

Ari:

kind of old compared to these people.

Ari:

But then, if you were to take me to, like, a restaurant, I'd look around

Ari:

and be like, Oh, you look pretty young.

Ari:

Oh.

Ari:

Interesting.

Ari:

Does that make sense?

Rebecca:

Right.

Ari:

Yeah.

Ari:

I don't know.

Ari:

You're just my mom.

Ari:

Okay.

Ari:

I feel like if I were to call you old, then you'd get kind of offended, but if

Ari:

I were to call you young, I'd feel weird.

Rebecca:

So, my question is...

Rebecca:

The fact that your grand, your great grandmother lives with you, how has that,

Rebecca:

she's lived with you since you were 5.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

And you're 12.

Rebecca:

How has that impacted your life?

Ari:

Hmm.

Ari:

I'm not sure how it has impacted my life, actually, because I've

Ari:

never been able to see my life or remember it without her there.

Ari:

Yeah.

Ari:

But if I were to take a guess, I feel like things would feel a lot less...

Ari:

Secure because sometimes people get, um, fragile when there's diversity, but most

Ari:

of the time when there is diversity, it just helps you kind of open your eyes.

Ari:

You mean

Rebecca:

diversity of the people around you.

Rebecca:

So you have somebody around you that has a different life view and life experience.

Ari:

I think maybe it's.

Ari:

Well, she's definitely helped a lot in numerous ways, like taking

Ari:

care of like the pets, you know, when we get gone sometimes and

Ari:

just kind of like being there.

Ari:

Actually, I'm not completely sure.

Rebecca:

So, you're in a formative stage, so you're 12, which is, your

Rebecca:

brain is very actively learning about the world and making sense of it.

Rebecca:

As a child, your brain learns through inferring and getting impressions

Rebecca:

of how things, you inherit ideas, values, and beliefs from us,

Rebecca:

whether we like it or not, right?

Rebecca:

You're born with a blank slate, and you have to look at what your mom

Rebecca:

and dad think and do, and the people around you, what they think and do,

Rebecca:

and you have to make sense of it.

Rebecca:

And so my question is, as young as 12, what is your, I don't even

Rebecca:

know if you have this developed yet, but what is your concept?

Rebecca:

of honoring your father or your mother, or how you should take care of them.

Rebecca:

Like, what, what is already in your brain about that?

Ari:

Well, I think that the reason why you took care of Nana is because when

Ari:

you were building the house in the first place, you saw that she was struggling,

Ari:

and you saw that you had some extra space.

Ari:

Well, I don't think you had extra space because you couldn't tell in the first

Ari:

place, but you saw that you had a chance and an opportunity to take her in.

Ari:

And...

Ari:

My impression is, is that it's a thing, it's a phenomenon that has been going

Ari:

on since the beginning of human history.

Ari:

Kind of like, where your parents, they're people, and kind of their

Ari:

job at this stage is to take care of you and to look after you for

Ari:

the better of the human race.

Ari:

And I think that that answer has to reverse and then the

Ari:

child starts to grow in a better position to take care of people.

Ari:

But then the person that they were taking care of, which is most likely

Ari:

their parents, start to, I don't want to say deteriorate, but they start to kind

Ari:

of like lose that, they start to lose that ability to operate the same way.

Rebecca:

Okay, Ari.

Rebecca:

So my question is, where does that concept come from?

Rebecca:

Oh,

Ari:

I wasn't finished about the human element thing.

Ari:

Sorry, um, Well, I think it's just kind of like for the better

Ari:

of our population, I suppose.

Ari:

I think, in my personal opinion, about how I feel about taking care

Ari:

of your parents at home, is that it truly is kind of up to you.

Ari:

Because if you can't...

Ari:

Actually provide for them.

Ari:

Kind of better off being nothing to them.

Ari:

Well, not like nothing to them, as in like, you don't deserve

Ari:

to see them or call them.

Ari:

But, some people, at this age, aren't really in that same spot.

Ari:

And it's truly, really, devastating.

Ari:

, but, you have to make sure that you can handle that responsibility.

Ari:

Just as parents, that are gonna have a newborn, have to make sure that they can

Ari:

Handle responsibility of an actual child.

Rebecca:

So do you feel pressure, because I'm such an awesome mom, to

Rebecca:

like, take care of me if I needed it?

Ari:

Uh, yeah.

Ari:

But, I think that Is it because

Rebecca:

I'm pressuring you right now in front of everybody?

Rebecca:

Oh

Justus:

no, I don't Well,

Ari:

I don't know how to explain it.

Ari:

I mean, I understand, but the reason why I'm not very pressured right now is

Ari:

because I feel like, by the time that that starts to happen, then there's already

Ari:

going to be a robot taking care of you.

Justus:

Oh, interesting.

Ari:

But if that didn't happen, then I think, especially with real estate

Ari:

prices, I, I would, because we can't really, if, having like five houses is

Ari:

kind of excess, especially for one family.

Ari:

Okay.

Rebecca:

That sounds kind of weird.

Rebecca:

So you think that the real estate prices at that point in time

Rebecca:

would argue that we would live together, because it's economical.

Ari:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Interesting.

Rebecca:

I always wonder how early that sentiment starts about how you feel like the

Rebecca:

expectations are for your, you know, how you would interact with your parents.

Rebecca:

So a lot of people see their parents take care of their parents.

Rebecca:

Does that make sense?

Rebecca:

Yes.

Rebecca:

So their parents take care of their grandparents.

Rebecca:

And then that sets a tone or it sets what's called a modeling behavior

Rebecca:

that you would pick up on and say, well, good children do this or

Rebecca:

good daughters do things this way.

Rebecca:

Now, I very intentionally tried to deprogram you for most of that mental

Rebecca:

stuff because it is very difficult, whether you acquire those beliefs or

Rebecca:

they're, you know, pushed upon you to say, well, here's how a good daughter

Rebecca:

behaves, you know, X, Y, and Z.

Rebecca:

And if you don't do this, then you're not a good daughter.

Rebecca:

Um, and so, do you, so, so, so the modeling is there, but

Rebecca:

that's just in your environment.

Rebecca:

So, I take care, or your dad and I, or all of us help take care of Nana, right?

Rebecca:

And you see that, but that's part of your normal life now, but that will increase

Rebecca:

the likelihood that you and your lifetime do something similar, not necessarily out

Rebecca:

of your value system or out of pressure, but because it's been modeled for you.

Rebecca:

And now you know what it looks like, right?

Rebecca:

You know, you have some pointers, you have some life experience with it

Rebecca:

already, even at 12, um, you know how to interact and to help somebody like that.

Rebecca:

But I don't ever want it to come across like...

Rebecca:

You know, this is, this is for, for everybody, you know, like

Rebecca:

everybody should, should do that.

Rebecca:

Do you know what I'm saying?

Ari:

Yes.

Ari:

I think what I understand the most is, is that if I do ever take

Ari:

care of you, then I need to keep the thermostat out of your room.

Rebecca:

What?

Ari:

Why?

Ari:

Because Nana always

Justus:

complains about it.

Justus:

Yeah, she does.

Justus:

Hehehehe.

Justus:

I know.

Justus:

It's funny.

Justus:

Anyways.

Ari:

So you are asking...

Ari:

How I feel about that, like if I feel pressured, you know what I mean?

Ari:

Well, I also have siblings.

Ari:

So they can just kind of

Rebecca:

take care of that.

Rebecca:

So you think you've, you've diluted the uh, responsibility?

Justus:

No,

Ari:

not really.

Ari:

Well, I think that I do really agree with like what you said

Ari:

that it's kind of a you thing.

Ari:

And how you feel about who you are in the moment.

Ari:

Um, or like not who you are, but your situation in the moment.

Ari:

and how that affects how you can take care of that person.

Ari:

That matters a lot, but my grandma and my grandpa, on both sides,

Ari:

they both live by themselves.

Ari:

And in The Simpsons, they always just kind of drop off Grandpa in the nursing

Ari:

home, but now that I think about it, I think it's very important to keep

Ari:

people around when you're surrounded by people, like, you know, my age,

Ari:

people haven't seen the same things, they haven't heard the same things.

Ari:

If you have a diverse group of opinions, it can help create a

Ari:

more neutral and factual opinion.

Ari:

Because then it can all, oh, filter into one.

Ari:

Well, not filter into one.

Ari:

I'm getting kind of off track.

Ari:

What I meant is that I do believe in the benefits of having parents around.

Rebecca:

Well, hopefully your parents believe in the benefits

Rebecca:

of having your parents around.

Rebecca:

You mean your grandparents, right?

Rebecca:

You definitely have a benefit from having your parents around.

Rebecca:

Like, legally, you have to have us around.

Rebecca:

Mmm, sure.

Rebecca:

So, can you give me three examples of what you think a good daughter is or does?

Ari:

A good daughter is respectful.

Ari:

Well, kind of after seeing all these emo Disney movies about how their parents

Ari:

have, like, Always made them to be a good daughter, I'm not completely sure.

Ari:

But I do think that a good person in the first place is to respect people.

Ari:

And maybe a daughter specifically's job is to respect their parents.

Ari:

Three examples, so, The second one would probably be to have The best

Ari:

of intentions, maybe, even if it doesn't come across that way, but

Ari:

they do care about their family.

Ari:

Doesn't mean that they don't have boundaries, of course, but they're

Ari:

still family and even if you don't like them at all, you still respect

Ari:

the fact that they're still people.

Rebecca:

Wait, who in our family do you not like at all?

Rebecca:

Oh, I don't know.

Rebecca:

you said that pretty confidently.

Rebecca:

Oh, I said that very confidently.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Alright, I'll give you a pass.

Rebecca:

What about number three?

Rebecca:

Number

Justus:

three?

Justus:

Hmm.

Ari:

Well, I guess it kind of depends on the age.

Ari:

But, a good daughter, maybe, has, communicates well with her parents

Ari:

about what she needs, what she wants.

Rebecca:

Well, can you think of anything else on the topic?

Rebecca:

Because you know I talk about this all the time.

Rebecca:

You've heard me do podcasts.

Rebecca:

Yes.

Rebecca:

And you've heard me record the course and talk to people about it.

Rebecca:

So what are your thoughts about the topic in general?

Ari:

This one I've actually been thinking about for a long time.

Ari:

This course is specifically designed for women.

Ari:

Not in like a weird way, but it's just kind of a woman thing.

Ari:

And I think that that actually speaks to a lot of the anti feminism in our society.

Ari:

Even if it's covered up with all these Karens on the internet,

Ari:

there still is, because a woman is always expected to love her family.

Ari:

But at work, she's supposed to be very family minded.

Ari:

No, very not family minded.

Ari:

You know, very professional and all.

Ari:

I think that the topic itself comes from that you're the woman and you

Ari:

don't have a choice except for the fact that you need to be a mother, you need

Ari:

to be pretty, and you need to be kind.

Ari:

Wait, who said that?

Ari:

No one needed to say that we need to be pretty.

Ari:

So what

Rebecca:

message do you get as a 12 year old girl?

Ari:

Well, as a 12 year old girl, just because I'm a girl doesn't mean that I'm

Ari:

completely discouraged and all of this.

Ari:

But it gives me a decent perspective thinking about it.

Ari:

But I'm also 12 years old, and I'm surrounded by kind

Ari:

of like the new generation.

Ari:

And what the new generation thinks is that, well, what everybody thinks.

Ari:

Well,

Athena:

what

Ari:

a lot of people think.

Ari:

Is that we can just drop them off in the nursing home, and that's about it.

Ari:

Wait, you actually

Rebecca:

think that?

Ari:

I never said I thought that.

Ari:

Well, Well, it's on the

Justus:

Simpsons, I did.

Justus:

My

Ari:

opinion on the topic

Justus:

is,

Ari:

is that, So what it is, is it's about aging parents, and It's about maybe

Ari:

like you're at an age where you just kind of want to enjoy life, but then

Ari:

they come in with all these expectations

Athena:

and

Ari:

Honestly, I saw this one tik tok not tik tok But I saw this one video and

Ari:

didn't know how to feel about it at first This lady was saying that people didn't

Ari:

ask to be born and that you shouldn't like put all these expectations on them Just

Ari:

because you raised them and in my brain at the time I was just kind of like well,

Ari:

you know, he didn't raise you Couldn't give back a little, but now I'm not

Ari:

completely sure about how I feel about it.

Rebecca:

Yeah, that's funny because I have that thought on this topic, which

Rebecca:

is the reverse is I Wanted to have you as a baby like I chose that now as you

Rebecca:

know I'm not I'm not saying all women choose to have the children they have

Rebecca:

there's a whole lot of other complex issues But for most people right I

Rebecca:

chose to bring you into the world like I Decided that that was a good idea

Rebecca:

and then I raised you and it isn't your responsibility to, like, you don't owe me

Rebecca:

anything, um, owe you lot Now after 18.

Rebecca:

I also don't owe you anything, by the way, just to throw that out

Rebecca:

there, so at least financially.

Rebecca:

So just prepping you for that.

Rebecca:

But this idea is, like, I, I don't disagree with the video you saw,

Rebecca:

in, insofar as how I think it's unfair to place that responsibility

Rebecca:

or that role to sort of have pressure on you to reciprocate.

Rebecca:

Well, I think it'd be impossible to match the amount of time, money,

Rebecca:

and resources that go into raising a child these days, even if you

Rebecca:

took care of me for like 20 years.

Rebecca:

Um, and, you know, I don't want to put you in that position.

Rebecca:

I want you to have your own life.

Rebecca:

Um, but I think the most pure experience of taking care of somebody else...

Rebecca:

is because you want to and because that's part of your value system, not

Rebecca:

because you feel obligated to do so.

Rebecca:

And so, my secret trick is to just be a really good mom and be really

Rebecca:

close to you, and then if I need you, then maybe that there will be

Rebecca:

enough manipulation left to make sure that you take care of me.

Athena:

Well, we

Ari:

don't have our grandparents live with us.

Ari:

We just have a great grandparents.

Ari:

And how I feel about this topic is, is that I haven't gone through, through it.

Ari:

I've just seen it.

Ari:

I haven't,

Ari:

I don't have the same perspective.

Ari:

But maybe that's what, well that's why I guess you wanted me here.

Ari:

How I feel about the topic itself.

Ari:

is, is that thinking that you can control someone just because

Ari:

of what you did for them.

Ari:

First of all, you shouldn't say that you can't, that they owe you something

Ari:

because You took care of them, cause then that kind of just feels like the

Ari:

times where, um, you're just saying that you were just being nice to

Ari:

them, that way they can give you back.

Ari:

And maybe that's not a parent's first intention, but you shouldn't bring a

Ari:

human being into the world, because they're their own human being, even

Ari:

if genetically they trace to you.

Ari:

And then you're trying to model them and sculpt them like

Ari:

clay, into your ideal version.

Ari:

of a human being.

Ari:

Even if you want to raise them to be a decent person, that's not

Ari:

really how I believe it works.

Ari:

But I do believe that when I get older, I want to be able to see

Ari:

myself Taking care of you guys.

Ari:

I don't want to see you guys like sleeping on the couch or anything But

Ari:

at least it was part of like an honor system and a value system From human

Ari:

to human if you didn't give me anything Then I think that just because you were

Ari:

still my mom and I was old and mature enough and I had my own money And I

Ari:

was in a spot to take care of you And I think I would help out a bit If that was

Ari:

Eminem, that'd be a lot different, but...

Rebecca:

Yeah, I guess he has a complicated relationship with

Justus:

his mom.

Ari:

Yeah, I respect him a lot though, because he, he has boundaries.

Ari:

And boundaries aren't being cold.

Ari:

I don't want Chase to Eminem, but...

Ari:

When I think about boundaries too, and how it relates to the topic itself,

Ari:

it's, it's not being cold to someone.

Ari:

It's, it's, it's really not, because there's quite a difference between setting

Ari:

up boundaries and just avoiding someone.

Ari:

Because how would you feel if somebody violated your boundaries?

Ari:

You would feel manipulated.

Justus:

I

Rebecca:

do want to say, in the type of work that I do, that the vast majority

Rebecca:

of aging adults don't want to rely on their kids or want help from their kids.

Rebecca:

But there's a subset that expect it and almost use verbal or mental abuse.

Rebecca:

Oh.

Rebecca:

To extract it in the, you know, or family, or you, you have to, or a good daughter

Rebecca:

or a perfect daughter would do this, and so, um, but the fuel to take care of

Rebecca:

somebody lasts so much longer when it's coming from a value system or from a deep

Rebecca:

seated, um, belief or admiration or love, something like that, like that fuel would

Rebecca:

just last longer than, you Oh, I have to do this, so I guess I'll do this, because

Rebecca:

if I don't, then I'm a bad daughter.

Rebecca:

Like, that sucks as a fuel.

Ari:

Yeah, you have a good point.

Ari:

I guess that was kind of how I saw it, though.

Ari:

Because I don't really have parents that do that.

Ari:

So that's kind of what I assumed when I heard from, you know,

Ari:

when I just heard about it.

Ari:

But, I guess to summarize it, because I get off track really easily, Um, is...

Ari:

Is that it truly just depends on you and your experience with a

Ari:

person and your relationship and your experience with yourself and

Ari:

your relationship with yourself.

Ari:

If that person makes you feel like you're, like you're trapped or like maybe

Ari:

if you meet the expectations, you'll finally be good enough as a human being.

Ari:

Now this sounds pretty exaggerated, but that's kind of how I see

Ari:

everything because I'm so young.

Ari:

Um, and that's not okay.

Ari:

The point is, is that regardless of what topic it is, is that we're all

Ari:

human beings with our own perspective on things and our own experience, our

Ari:

own thoughts and our own feelings.

Ari:

And since I'm young, I still feel...

Ari:

Well, as a person, I still feel a lot that I'm the only one that

Ari:

feels things, if that makes sense.

Ari:

Like, if somebody tells me, like, oh, I have all this doubt and

Ari:

insecurities too, I would believe them.

Ari:

Deep down, I would still be like, but they're another person.

Ari:

And I wouldn't be able to, like, completely feel like how...

Ari:

Because I've only been in my body, if that makes sense.

Ari:

Although, in the first place...

Ari:

We're all just human beings, and the best option is to treat each other

Ari:

how we would want to be treated.

Rebecca:

Well, I had one other thought, and it's the idea of people pleasing.

Rebecca:

So people pleasing is very common, and I acquired it, I think, somehow,

Rebecca:

I don't know, um, through modeling or just through, you know, getting

Rebecca:

a lot of, like, affirmations from people pleasing, especially at school.

Rebecca:

Which made me a good student and, um, I kind of chuckle because I try

Rebecca:

very hard with you guys to, to not program in people pleasing because it

Rebecca:

can be such a problematic behavior.

Rebecca:

But I, I think I'm shooting myself in the foot because having people pleasing

Rebecca:

children is much more convenient.

Rebecca:

Right?

Rebecca:

It'd be so much easier if you guys were always concerned.

Rebecca:

Whether or not you were, uh, Helping out and things like that.

Rebecca:

Well we are, right?

Rebecca:

No.

Rebecca:

I don't know about that, but, But you know, so I've like, oh my god, In my,

Rebecca:

you know, attempt to be a progressive parent, I've created a non people

Rebecca:

pleaser, so, You, you've hopefully been liberated from that, But, I always

Rebecca:

laugh at myself, because it's, It would have been much easier to raise you

Rebecca:

guys as people pleasers, cause then, um, at least for me it would be like,

Rebecca:

oh, very good, very, very agreeable.

Rebecca:

So.

Ari:

Oh, I'm already imagining a lot.

Ari:

Or

Rebecca:

do you already feel like you're a people pleaser

Rebecca:

even without the programming?

Ari:

Partially, yes.

Ari:

Yeah?

Ari:

It's cause I like, um, I don't know how to explain this without sounding

Ari:

vain, but, like, everybody, when I get praise or, like, attention,

Athena:

it's almost like, oh,

Ari:

it's a genuine dopamine rush.

Ari:

And it's, once you get, it's like candy, you know?

Ari:

Like, once you get one lick, you want more and more and more and more.

Ari:

That's kind of like my natural

Athena:

tendency.

Athena:

Um,

Ari:

so yes, I do agree with you on that.

Ari:

Um, but I always wonder why people please.

Ari:

Um, I don't want to try and say this in a condescending way, but when you said

Ari:

stuff about people pleasers, my brain went to the fact that Why do people do that?

Ari:

Do they,

Rebecca:

is it...

Rebecca:

Oh, well it's very primitive, right?

Rebecca:

You want to fit in, you want to feel like a part of the group, like you're valuable.

Ari:

But like, what about the group means that their opinion on you is accurate?

Ari:

What do you mean?

Ari:

Well, if I were to get praise from someone, even if I did a horrific job

Ari:

at something, or a terrible job, and they gave me, like, you know, good work,

Ari:

like, what about other people's opinions?

Ari:

Should mean anything.

Ari:

Does

Rebecca:

that I'm going to say that's an entirely separate podcast

Rebecca:

that we can do just based on that.

Rebecca:

Um, so I'm going to ask you to come back on the podcast.

Rebecca:

I think this was a good discussion.

Rebecca:

I appreciate you letting me pull you in from the kitchen randomly.

Rebecca:

The truth is I recorded two other podcasts and I hated them.

Rebecca:

And I've always wanted to talk to you and this is much more fun

Rebecca:

than me listening to myself talk.

Ari:

Well, the whole point of this segment is to ask me how

Ari:

I feel about the topic, yes?

Ari:

Yes.

Ari:

Because I'm young and because I'm surrounded by like...

Ari:

Um, I don't know, like, y'all, I guess.

Ari:

It'll be a long time to explain, like, having a great grandmother, having a mom

Ari:

that's a people pleaser, and then, or, should I say, like, post people pleaser.

Ari:

Hehe.

Ari:

Um, and then having a dad, which I don't even know how he plays into this.

Ari:

He's an only child, but yeah, what kind of expectations were put?

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Whole other podcasts.

Rebecca:

Hehe.

Rebecca:

Well, thank you, Ari, for coming on, I appreciate it.

Rebecca:

Oh, sorry, did

Ari:

you have something else?

Ari:

Oh, I was gonna try my absolute best to use all of those English

Ari:

classes to say the summary of all the worksheets we had to do.

Ari:

Anyways, um, just my personal opinion is that it's a, or it really is a

Ari:

you thing, but if you have a good relationship With your family, you

Ari:

should just try to keep them close.

Ari:

And, boundaries still, but, family is family.

Rebecca:

Awesome.

Rebecca:

Thank you, Ari.

Rebecca:

I appreciate you.

Rebecca:

Thank you for

Ari:

coming on today.

Ari:

Thank you, Mom, for inviting

Rebecca:

me.

Rebecca:

Yep.

Rebecca:

See you soon.

Rebecca:

I mean in like five minutes

Rebecca:

So now we have Athena with us.

Rebecca:

That's my second daughter.

Rebecca:

Athena.

Rebecca:

How old are you?

Rebecca:

Why'd you say it like that?

Rebecca:

Athena, how old are you?

Rebecca:

Eight.

Rebecca:

Eight?

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

So I was just talking to Ari, and I wanted to know, in an eight year

Rebecca:

old brain, how you think about your parents as they get older.

Rebecca:

Especially knowing that Nana lives with us.

Rebecca:

Does that, like, pre program you or put pressure on you?

Rebecca:

to take care of your parents or grandparents when they get older?

Justus:

Um, you

Athena:

said that a little bit too fast.

Athena:

Can you say that in a more better way?

Athena:

Because I

Justus:

can't really understand that.

Rebecca:

Sorry, that's common with me.

Rebecca:

Um, so you're eight.

Rebecca:

Yes.

Rebecca:

And you see your parents helping take care of their grandparents.

Justus:

Yes.

Rebecca:

Do you have thoughts in your head about you taking care

Rebecca:

of your own parents or your own

Justus:

grandparents?

Justus:

Like,

Ari:

usually?

Athena:

Yeah.

Athena:

Like, like, oh, like, like, like, like, um, like

Ari:

often.

Ari:

Yeah.

Ari:

No, I don't have thoughts

Justus:

often about that.

Justus:

You don't?

Justus:

I don't.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

What's it like to have a grandparent, a great grandparent living with you?

Justus:

Um,

Athena:

I mean, it's nice whenever you get to,

Ari:

um,

Athena:

it's, it's nice to have her because at least, um, like, like you get

Athena:

to see someone from like, like you're...

Athena:

At least you get, I

Ari:

don't know how to put this really.

Justus:

Um,

Athena:

but,

Justus:

um, um, um, I don't know how to say this.

Rebecca:

You like to have somebody with a different

Ari:

perspective?

Athena:

Yeah, and I like to have, I, um, um, um, I like to, um, have

Athena:

someone that is older than me.

Athena:

Well, what I mean is like, have, like, someone, I don't know how to say this.

Rebecca:

Do you feel like your parents are old?

Ari:

Okay, first of all,

Athena:

you don't look like you're 41, right?

Athena:

Yeah.

Athena:

And second of all, Dad doesn't look like he's...

Athena:

42.

Rebecca:

What do you mean?

Rebecca:

We look older or younger than that?

Justus:

You

Athena:

look a little bit older.

Athena:

Oh, and daddy looks a little bit younger.

Athena:

But you also got, but I can also see that you guys both look younger,

Athena:

but you guys also both look older.

Athena:

And that's kind of confusing because I could see.

Athena:

That I could see if someone says, Oh, your, your mom looks older.

Athena:

Yeah, I can clearly see that.

Athena:

Does somebody say that?

Athena:

No, no, no, no.

Athena:

But if somebody ever would, then I can see that.

Athena:

But if somebody ever would say

Ari:

that...

Ari:

Alright, okay,

Rebecca:

we're way off topic.

Rebecca:

We are way off topic.

Rebecca:

Okay, my question is, not if I look old or young.

Rebecca:

My question...

Rebecca:

You look both.

Rebecca:

My question is, does your brain feel pressure to take care

Rebecca:

of me or dad when we get old?

Athena:

When I think about it, medium because I have three,

Athena:

because I have two other siblings.

Athena:

Oh.

Athena:

So, I feel...

Athena:

Not whenever I think about it.

Athena:

I don't feel any pressure because I am okay with taking care of you guys And

Athena:

I think I might know how to do that and

Ari:

process

Athena:

that a little bit But I do have two other

Justus:

siblings.

Justus:

Oh,

Rebecca:

so you're thinking that y'all might like divide and conquer or something

Rebecca:

I have dad and who would have mom.

Justus:

Yeah You want to trade

Ari:

off or something?

Ari:

I think I'd have both

Athena:

I'm just kidding.

Athena:

Um, but I mean, I'm, I don't feel pressure that much at all, but I

Athena:

know that Ari might feel a little bit of pressure, because she

Athena:

is the older one, and she's the

Ari:

one that's usually more responsible, so she might

Athena:

think, oh, they won't take care of them, so I'll take

Athena:

care of them, but I think, no,

Ari:

I can take care of them.

Rebecca:

Oh, so you're pre predicting or thinking that, I don't know, maybe.

Rebecca:

That Ari might feel that responsibility more

Justus:

because she's older.

Justus:

Yeah.

Justus:

Oh.

Ari:

Did she say that?

Ari:

No.

Ari:

I think she did.

Rebecca:

I don't think she did at all.

Justus:

Oh.

Athena:

Did she say she's not that worried?

Athena:

Yeah, she's not

Justus:

that worried.

Justus:

Oh, okay,

Ari:

okay, okay.

Ari:

And I don't

Rebecca:

think, and I don't want you to be either, right, so.

Rebecca:

I don't, I don't...

Rebecca:

So, so,

Athena:

so, so, um, So you're happy about our book perspective

Athena:

because, um, Yeah, we're

Ari:

both not worried.

Ari:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Well, I don't want you to be, and I don't mean to pull

Rebecca:

you into a difficult topic, but I always wonder, like, how early...

Rebecca:

Okay, good.

Rebecca:

Tell me more about that.

Athena:

Okay, the reason why I said that was because I was thinking of

Athena:

what to say whenever you asked me.

Athena:

Whenever you asked me, um, blah blah blah about

Ari:

Nana and stuff, I was like,

Justus:

Hello!

Athena:

I like living with her because she's funny, because she's

Athena:

old, because she's like, well,

Athena:

stop working because she had a black screen.

Athena:

She just accidentally turned it off.

Athena:

my lamp isn't working.

Athena:

Nana, you accidentally unplugged it,

Ari:

somehow.

Justus:

So,

Rebecca:

so you find some time,

Justus:

really.

Athena:

And, and, I like kinda, like, visiting her, and I love, um, Nana, and

Athena:

her birds, um, I love looking at them.

Athena:

For some reason, one of them...

Athena:

It's losing

Ari:

feathers on one side and has lots

Justus:

of feathers on the other.

Justus:

Oh.

Justus:

So that's really weird.

Rebecca:

So you like her birds and you think it's fun?

Rebecca:

To

Ari:

have her around

Athena:

and, uh, and not most people get to see their grandparents and get

Athena:

to have them, I mean their great great grandparents, and get to have them in

Athena:

the house because they're usually dead.

Athena:

And I like the feeling of having someone in the house, um, and I like

Athena:

how funny she is because when you're just sitting around doing nothing,

Athena:

always hear that game show of hers.

Athena:

Or her animal show

Ari:

or whatever.

Athena:

And also, I just like visiting her.

Athena:

And also, um, yeah.

Athena:

I like helping out.

Athena:

Okay, what's the next topic?

Athena:

Because, um, I kind of got off

Ari:

topic.

Ari:

But whatever.

Rebecca:

The next question was about people pleasing.

Rebecca:

Sorry.

Rebecca:

The next question was about people pleasing, and if you feel like you're

Rebecca:

being raised as a people pleaser, if you even know what that is.

Athena:

What do you mean by people pleasing, people pleasure, people peeing?

Athena:

Uh, this, this interview is really going downhill quickly.

Athena:

Sorry.

Athena:

Do you

Rebecca:

want to People pleasing.

Rebecca:

Where you do things to make other people happy.

Rebecca:

I like doing that.

Rebecca:

You do?

Rebecca:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

, even if it doesn't really work for you, it means that you're,

Rebecca:

if it means that you have to lie,

Athena:

if you're like, yes, yes, yes.

Athena:

Um, I,

Justus:

I please my friends a lot like that.

Justus:

And so, yeah.

Rebecca:

So, you don't feel extra pressure in your life to take care of

Rebecca:

your mom and dad if they get old and

Justus:

sick?

Athena:

Yeah, I don't feel that much pressure because I do have other siblings.

Athena:

And I, and, um, and, shush!

Athena:

And, and, um, and I really, really, um, um, think...

Athena:

I ain't gonna get a good job because I really, really want

Athena:

to become an orthodontist.

Athena:

Or if I don't become it, I also want to become like something else,

Athena:

but I have no idea what that is.

Athena:

But maybe, maybe not.

Athena:

Okay, I don't know.

Athena:

But um, I do want to become an orthodontist because I

Athena:

just like that kind of stuff.

Justus:

Well, thank you,

Rebecca:

Athena Tapia, for coming to speak with me today.

Rebecca:

Will you come back on the podcast in the future?

Rebecca:

What do you think?

Ari:

Yes.

Rebecca:

Okay, last but not least, I have...

Rebecca:

Last but not least, I have my son, Justice Tapia.

Rebecca:

Hi.

Rebecca:

Hello.

Rebecca:

How old are you?

Rebecca:

Eight.

Rebecca:

You're the same age as Athena.

Rebecca:

How is that possible?

Justus:

We're twins.

Justus:

We're twins, yeah.

Justus:

Okay.

Justus:

But Athena's older than me by 32 minutes.

Rebecca:

Okay, fair.

Rebecca:

So, as the baby of the family, I, I'm sorry, you don't even

Rebecca:

know what I'm about to ask you.

Rebecca:

Mm hmm.

Rebecca:

So, um, I, I talked to Ari and I talked to Athena about what

Rebecca:

it's like to live with Nana.

Rebecca:

Uh, It's a very unique experience to live with your great grandparent.

Rebecca:

What's that like?

Rebecca:

Well, it's

Justus:

very, like, so,

Athena:

she's, uh, how can I say,

Justus:

she's like more, She doesn't really like come out of her room.

Justus:

She doesn't need a lot of stuff.

Justus:

I'm very surprised that she doesn't be like, Oh, uh, I'm like, She cooks herself.

Justus:

She does all this for I'll buy yourself and all the other people just like

Justus:

other older people Would be able to know

Athena:

you know

Ari:

you would not

Athena:

you

Justus:

would probably want to be 89 You're probably not gonna know how

Justus:

to cook or what be afraid of burning yourself or but she's very tough because

Justus:

she doesn't 'cause she's not afraid of anything or she can still cook

Justus:

for herself and that would be hard.

Justus:

I can't even cook for myself.

Justus:

'cause

Rebecca:

Well, yeah, you're, you're getting there.

Rebecca:

So the question I had for the girls was that, um,

Rebecca:

I wonder when or if people get the responsibility or the pressure in

Rebecca:

their brain to think that they need to or should take care of their

Rebecca:

own parents when they get old.

Rebecca:

Um,

Rebecca:

so, so like, do you feel pressure or responsibility in your brain for

Rebecca:

when Dad and I get old and we need someone to help take care of us?

Rebecca:

Not really.

Justus:

No.

Justus:

Not

Ari:

really.

Ari:

Why?

Justus:

Um, I feel like you're really strong,

Athena:

um, people

Justus:

and, and, um, you can, you know, you can, you can already

Justus:

do all these things, whatever.

Justus:

You're 40 and 40, um, two and, um, And, and I wouldn't be worried 'cause it's a

Justus:

long way to go until you get pretty old,

Rebecca:

so, oh, okay.

Rebecca:

So it's not, you're not worried about it

Ari:

right now, at least.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

But in the future, are you worried about it?

Rebecca:

I

Ari:

might be.

Justus:

You might be a little bit,

Rebecca:

but So you don't feel excessively pressured into.

Rebecca:

You're shaking your head no.

Justus:

No.

Justus:

I don't have any pressure right now to um, to take care of me because

Ari:

I'm only about 8 years old.

Rebecca:

No, I know, I know.

Rebecca:

I just meant like, and maybe that's the answer.

Rebecca:

Is that an 8 year old, 8 years old?

Rebecca:

I'm going too young to figure it out.

Rebecca:

But there's a point at which people start to feel like that their culture

Rebecca:

or their family sets them up to say, It's going to be your job someday.

Rebecca:

To take care of your parents.

Justus:

Well,

Athena:

I'm not really...

Ari:

I don't feel so pressured

Justus:

to do...

Justus:

To, um, take care of you guys.

Justus:

Cause you're taking care of us right now.

Justus:

Yeah.

Justus:

Um, but,

Ari:

in the

Justus:

future I would say, That, um, that I would kinda be pressured Cause, um,

Ari:

cause,

Justus:

you know, We don't have, um, in the future.

Justus:

Well, I don't know.

Justus:

I don't know in the future, so I don't know if there's gonna be, you know, one

Justus:

of those like, um, where like those, they take care of you and stuff like that.

Justus:

Um,

Rebecca:

Like Ari mentioned in The Simpsons that they dropped their

Rebecca:

grandpa off at the nursing home.

Justus:

Yeah, the nursing home.

Justus:

I don't know if you're gonna go to the nursing home, or you're just gonna

Athena:

stay at your

Justus:

own home,

Rebecca:

or...

Rebecca:

But you don't really feel bothered by

Justus:

that, right?

Justus:

I don't feel bothered by it.

Justus:

Okay.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

Do you have any other thoughts on aging parents?

Justus:

Um, one other thing is that, um, I think it's really old.

Justus:

You think I'm old?

Justus:

Hmm.

Justus:

Yeah.

Ari:

I don't believe it.

Ari:

Eight and

Justus:

you're forty?

Justus:

I'm forty

Rebecca:

one.

Justus:

Forty one.

Rebecca:

So you don't have as much to say about this as your sister did.

Rebecca:

Is that okay?

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

You're a man of few words.

Justus:

Uh, I don't know.

Justus:

I don't know what they said, but it took, it sounded like

Justus:

Auri was talking a lot, so.

Justus:

Yeah.

Justus:

I was hearing whatever she was talking, so.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

Well, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

Rebecca:

Okay.

Rebecca:

I'll see you later.

Rebecca:

Bye.

Rebecca:

In like one minute.

Justus:

Bye.

Rebecca:

Okay, everyone.

Rebecca:

Thank you so much.

Rebecca:

I hope you enjoyed that episode with my three very special guests.

Rebecca:

I look forward to talking to you next week.

Rebecca:

We've got some exciting...

Rebecca:

Next, can you do that?

Rebecca:

Athena.

Rebecca:

Sorry.

Rebecca:

We've got some exciting episodes coming up.

Rebecca:

Um, podcast, please move over to the Apple podcast or Spotify and

Rebecca:

please leave a written review.

Rebecca:

That would be great.

Rebecca:

That would help other people find us.

Rebecca:

Until next time.

Rebecca:

Thank you.

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Rebecca Tapia